My favorite ich treatment

Discussion in 'Aquatic Health/Diseases' started by CarpCharacin, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. CarpCharacin

    CarpCharacin Rainbow cichlid Administrator Fish mentor

    Ich is a very common parasite in fish. My favorite treatment is to use formalin malachite green. It is sold as Kordon rid ich plus. Any ich treatment works better in warmer water. Ich is almost untreatable in colder temperatures. Add 5 ml per 10 gallons of water. That is about 1 teaspoon of it. You can also use salt and warmer water, but this treatment is my favorite. Kordon rid ich plus is also good at treating fungus.
     
  2. Angelphish

    Angelphish Bolivian ram Well-known Member

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    I've used API and Tetra ich treatments (it was all my lfs had in stock, and I bought it all) and had success with both. They come in powders rather than liquid forms like the ones you mentioned.
     
  3. CarpCharacin

    CarpCharacin Rainbow cichlid Administrator Fish mentor

    Formalin malachite green is my favorite treatment. It works fast.
     
  4. Professor_fish

    Professor_fish German blue ram Fish guru

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    The fist part of this may only apply to Europe and the UK, however the rest of it applies to everyone everywhere.

    Malachite green green has been used in the industry since before I even kept fish. It was/is effective against some diseases. It was recently banned because of toxicity, currently it is classed as a possible carcinogen.

    The normal reaction from people is simply 'oh well everything is called a carcinogen these days'. But in the case of Malachite Green the situation is different, its use within fish farming and such means it has a high financial impact. It would not of been banned lightly because nothing so far has been found to replace it.

    So how dangerous is it?

    The paper attached is a scientific paper, its a bit hard going in places but if anyone wants anything explained then please shout out.

    I suggest people read it and then decide if it should be used, keep in mind it should only be used in quarantine.
     

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  5. CarpCharacin

    CarpCharacin Rainbow cichlid Administrator Fish mentor

    It isn't banned here in the US. I started using formalin malachite green because it was reccomended to me by a vet.
     
  6. Professor_fish

    Professor_fish German blue ram Fish guru

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    It is effective, but use it only when really needed. Read the paper so you are aware that it can also harm as well as cure, the best method is too use it as a bath.

    Vets recommend medication based on what they know will kill X,Y,Z disease, few if any read aquatic scientific papers or keep upto date in the field of aquatics unless they specialize. At some point i am told it will also be banned over there as well.

    The paper is from the Aquatic Toxicology Journal, it is very much regarded as a high end Journal
     
  7. Professor_fish

    Professor_fish German blue ram Fish guru

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    I was thinking about this a little, once upon a time we used a different method. Unfortunately we cant use it so much at work because it causes alot of paperwork over ethics.

    However the following has been studied and written about, i cant remember the reference off hand but i will try and post the papers.
    Fish can become resistant to Ich, some species are more resistant than others, for example zebra danios once infected show a high resistance to future outbreaks.

    The interesting thing however is a paper i came across a while back. The paper suggested that fish who had once been infected and then become resistant were then 'primed', the idea being that if primed fish are put in an aquarium with fish that have ich, the survival rate is in the >90% range.

    I am not too sure of the mechanism, but it would appear the primed fish attract the parasite more, however being resistant dont become ill, this then lowers the parasite loading.

    I have used it in the past and it does seem to work, i have yet to actually study it in the lab.

    I have found one paper to give you an idea, but there are more i will try and get hold of.
     

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  8. CarpCharacin

    CarpCharacin Rainbow cichlid Administrator Fish mentor

    That is strange that fish become resistant to protozoa. In the paper, it said that the primed fish were previously infected with ich. How was the ich treated in the primed fish when they were previously infected? Was it treated with ich meds or were those the fish that survived the infection without treatment? This also raises another question. Could a vaccine for fish against ich be developed? It is possible to vaccinate against protozoan parasites.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
  9. Professor_fish

    Professor_fish German blue ram Fish guru

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    The primed fish were not treated, that is kind of the point of it. They use natural resistance, I have more papers on immune response to Ich and resistance. I can only access my own cloud at work from my home network, when i next go into the lab I will grab some of the other papers off our database.
     
  10. Professor_fish

    Professor_fish German blue ram Fish guru

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    I am going to post some papers and some references on Ich here. Some of the papers are meant to be paid for, however working in academia i am allowed to disseminate some of them. Other papers i may have to put on a page with some restrictions (i dont want copy write agro).

    Any of the citations i post or links to abstracts, shout if you want to read the whole paper and I can sort something out, i will go through each of the papers as i get a chance, some are pretty heavy on science so please dont be shy about shouting out if you want a simplified overview.

    I got some stick for posting science stuff elsewhere, I think the problem was mainly people thought i was posting the papers to look clever! Nothing could be further from the truth, some thought they would look stupid asking questions, keep in mind these papers are written by scientists for scientists. If you understand them, then great. However dont think your stupid if you dont understand what is written in them, I have had MANY years scientific training, i am meant to understand the papers! I am also meant to be able to explain them........Sometimes that is difficult.

    What I want to do is share as much scientific knowledge as I can, i am hoping to change long held misconceptions on many aquatic subjects, it is also a chance to bring fish keepers fully upto date with what science knows about certain subjects.

    Keep in mind just because its in a paper dosnt mean its good science! The trick as a scientist, is to be able to sort the crap from the gold.

    Ran out of upload size! so adding some citations, you should be able to put the titles in google and read the Abstracts, any you want to read the full paper shout me.

    WAHLI, T., FRISCHKNECHT, R., SCHMITT, M., GABAUDAN, J., VERLHAC, V. and MEIER, W. (1995), A comparison of the effect of silicone coated ascorbic acid and ascorbyl phosphate on the course of ichthyophthiriosis in rainbow trout, Oncorhynchus mykiss (Walbaum). Journal of Fish Diseases, 18: 347–355.

    GRATZEK, J. B., GILBERT, J. P., LOHR, A. L., SHOTTS, E. B. and BROWN, J. (1983), Ultraviolet light control of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis Fouquet in a closed fish culture recirculation system. Journal of Fish Diseases, 6: 145–153
     

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